Comments on: Does ITIL Really Matter – The Debate on the Tivoli Mailing List http://www.johnmwillis.com/tivoli/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/ JOHNMWILLIS BLOG Wed, 02 Jun 2010 23:53:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Matt http://www.johnmwillis.com/tivoli/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/comment-page-1/#comment-63403 Matt Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:16:27 +0000 http://www.johnmwillis.com/wp/test/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/#comment-63403 Good process management is realistically the only way to manage IT well or any company doing anything. ITIL is one method, there are many others and ITIL has huge flaws which make me question who the hell is feeding into its development and has done over the last 30 years. I believe its lack of perfection is down to 2 areas. Firstly its a money making setup, the courses are way too expensive for what is basic common sense. Secondly all the people I've met in ITSMF forums etc are just schmoozy management and the whole thing is a 'club' this results in little change and poor links to the real world practices. All this said it annoys me just as much as those opposed to it. Its just a framework, processes aren't bureaucratic, they're how you operate. If you find your companies processes bureaucratic then they're badly designed. At least ITIL gives us a common framework and terminology. If you understand ITIL and IT and Processes. getting ISO9000 implemented which covers the ITIL processes is a far better and more meaningful way to go and you'll reap far more benefits, that said it is far harder and more work. Good process management is realistically the only way to manage IT well or any company doing anything. ITIL is one method, there are many others and ITIL has huge flaws which make me question who the hell is feeding into its development and has done over the last 30 years. I believe its lack of perfection is down to 2 areas. Firstly its a money making setup, the courses are way too expensive for what is basic common sense. Secondly all the people I’ve met in ITSMF forums etc are just schmoozy management and the whole thing is a ‘club’ this results in little change and poor links to the real world practices. All this said it annoys me just as much as those opposed to it. Its just a framework, processes aren’t bureaucratic, they’re how you operate. If you find your companies processes bureaucratic then they’re badly designed. At least ITIL gives us a common framework and terminology. If you understand ITIL and IT and Processes. getting ISO9000 implemented which covers the ITIL processes is a far better and more meaningful way to go and you’ll reap far more benefits, that said it is far harder and more work.

]]> By: John http://www.johnmwillis.com/tivoli/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/comment-page-1/#comment-10530 John Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:51:14 +0000 http://www.johnmwillis.com/wp/test/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/#comment-10530 Don, I agree having something as oppressed to nothing is a good thing. I originally posted this question on a very popular IBM IT management forum called the Tivoli TME. These were the responses I received from the question. Most of the companies that responded are fortune 1k. Thanks John Don,

I agree having something as oppressed to nothing is a good thing. I originally posted this question on a very popular IBM IT management forum called the Tivoli TME. These were the responses I received from the question. Most of the companies that responded are fortune 1k.

Thanks
John

]]> By: Don Schueler http://www.johnmwillis.com/tivoli/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/comment-page-1/#comment-10518 Don Schueler Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:13:45 +0000 http://www.johnmwillis.com/wp/test/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/#comment-10518 Having ITIL processes in place is better than not having them in place. That being said, ITIL is really targeted to the internal data center support world. It is not really robust enough to address the world of "vendor support" since it is really a general framework and does not bring the real world best practices into the equation. (I will admit to having a tainted viewpoint on this since I do work with Service Strategies, owner of the SCP standard that was built by the major software and hardware vendors out there...but I have also run major service organizations and have been involved in ISO, Baldridge etc. etc. and they all had this fundamental flaw that makes it harder to implement and of a lesser real value. But again, something is better than nothing!) Having ITIL processes in place is better than not having them in place. That being said, ITIL is really targeted to the internal data center support world. It is not really robust enough to address the world of “vendor support” since it is really a general framework and does not bring the real world best practices into the equation. (I will admit to having a tainted viewpoint on this since I do work with Service Strategies, owner of the SCP standard that was built by the major software and hardware vendors out there…but I have also run major service organizations and have been involved in ISO, Baldridge etc. etc. and they all had this fundamental flaw that makes it harder to implement and of a lesser real value. But again, something is better than nothing!)

]]> By: People Over Process » IT Management Podcast #001 - barcampESM, Monitoring, The Cloud, 2008 Predictions, and more http://www.johnmwillis.com/tivoli/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/comment-page-1/#comment-864 People Over Process » IT Management Podcast #001 - barcampESM, Monitoring, The Cloud, 2008 Predictions, and more Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:38:54 +0000 http://www.johnmwillis.com/wp/test/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/#comment-864 [...] in the new OMC around the topic, I ask John to tell us about the continued discussion around his does ITIL matter? discussion in the Tivoli mailing list and [...] [...] in the new OMC around the topic, I ask John to tell us about the continued discussion around his does ITIL matter? discussion in the Tivoli mailing list and [...]

]]> By: Danielle http://www.johnmwillis.com/tivoli/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/comment-page-1/#comment-189 Danielle Fri, 07 Dec 2007 19:47:42 +0000 http://www.johnmwillis.com/wp/test/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/#comment-189 You guys are all missing the point and furthermore so does most of the IT industry. Unfortunately, over the last few years, some of your criticisms of ITIL based Service Management have been proven correct. Although the ITIL Library has been around for over 20 years, it has become a buzz word, commodity and a fad. This is especially true in the U.S. The concepts, initially developed from the best examples taken from practice, have been polluted by those who know little or nothing about management consulting. This has made it extremely difficult to distinguish between the chatter surrounding the real value of adopting ITIL and that around ITIL for the sake of ITIL. What I've noticed is that many organizations opt for the second (ITIL for the sake of ITIL)forgetting that ITIL is not an end in and of itself. Rather, it is a means to an end. Therefore, any organization that attempts to utilize the best practice guidance outlined in the library will ultimately be unsuccessful in delivering any real value. ITIL initiatives must be linked to clearly defined organizational objectives and all measurements must reflect the progress, or lack thereof, toward meeting these stated goals. This is a point that is lost on both the critics and cheerleaders of Service Management. Additionally, it cannot be rolled out in a vacuum. Any undertaking related to changing the way work is done within an organization (ITIL fits into this category) has to have the participation from multiple departments and divisions including, HR, Business Units, IT Operations, Support Oranizations, Procurement, Suppliers, Development and User groups. In short, (and I could go on), achieving the benefits of implementing IT Service Management requires a level of planning and investment that most organizations either don't understand or are not seriously interested in making. And why should they when it is so much easier to just publicly say that your organization has "implemented ITIL?" The danger in this is reflected in the comments posted on this site and is being reverberated in IT organizations across the US. You guys are all missing the point and furthermore so does most of the IT industry. Unfortunately, over the last few years, some of your criticisms of ITIL based Service Management have been proven correct. Although the ITIL Library has been around for over 20 years, it has become a buzz word, commodity and a fad. This is especially true in the U.S. The concepts, initially developed from the best examples taken from practice, have been polluted by those who know little or nothing about management consulting. This has made it extremely difficult to distinguish between the chatter surrounding the real value of adopting ITIL and that around ITIL for the sake of ITIL.

What I’ve noticed is that many organizations opt for the second (ITIL for the sake of ITIL)forgetting that ITIL is not an end in and of itself. Rather, it is a means to an end. Therefore, any organization that attempts to utilize the best practice guidance outlined in the library will ultimately be unsuccessful in delivering any real value. ITIL initiatives must be linked to clearly defined organizational objectives and all measurements must reflect the progress, or lack thereof, toward meeting these stated goals. This is a point that is lost on both the critics and cheerleaders of Service Management.

Additionally, it cannot be rolled out in a vacuum. Any undertaking related to changing the way work is done within an organization (ITIL fits into this category) has to have the participation from multiple departments and divisions including, HR, Business Units, IT Operations, Support Oranizations, Procurement, Suppliers, Development and User groups.

In short, (and I could go on), achieving the benefits of implementing IT Service Management requires a level of planning and investment that most organizations either don’t understand or are not seriously interested in making. And why should they when it is so much easier to just publicly say that your organization has “implemented ITIL?”

The danger in this is reflected in the comments posted on this site and is being reverberated in IT organizations across the US.

]]> By: Berkay http://www.johnmwillis.com/tivoli/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/comment-page-1/#comment-50 Berkay Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:43:50 +0000 http://www.johnmwillis.com/wp/test/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/#comment-50 Hey John, the new blog looks good but you broke all the old links :) I've updated the link to this one. Take care, Hey John,
the new blog looks good but you broke all the old links :)
I’ve updated the link to this one.

Take care,

]]> By: People Over Process » links for 2007-11-29 http://www.johnmwillis.com/tivoli/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/comment-page-1/#comment-32 People Over Process » links for 2007-11-29 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:19:51 +0000 http://www.johnmwillis.com/wp/test/does-itil-really-matter-the-debate-on-the-tivoli-mailing-list/#comment-32 [...] Does ITIL Really Matter - The Debate on the Tivoli Mailing List Whole lotta email-list talk on ITIL. (tags: itmanagement itil email) [...] [...] Does ITIL Really Matter – The Debate on the Tivoli Mailing List Whole lotta email-list talk on ITIL. (tags: itmanagement itil email) [...]

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